Curse

Kashrlyyk · Feb 20, 2011, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Intensity seems to be bugged. If I use Intensity and then cast Flare at the "suit of 100 armor" on the Battle Isle it deals damage to the two armors next to it.

But if I do the same with Dragon Stomp only the 100 armor suit is hit with the bonus damage.

MithranArkanere · Feb 20, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

PvP eles are for damage, Hard Mode eles are for support (in PUGs).
And you're very wrong about the support skills. Apart from all the water snares and Maelstrom rupts and Rust... You have Wards in Earth line; Eruption, blind spam; Churning Earth, etc. These are all much better abused with better energy management with an instant recharge(i.e. Assassin's Promise) compared to any other elementalist elite, even a supportive one.

Anet will cry if they have to destroy their model of professions because too many nukers cry about not being able to nuke for 1337 damage. I know loads of people ingame who still use SF because they're bad at change/abusing mechanics.

Running ER prot is completely different to running a monk. One conserves energy until it's needed, the other is forced to spam ten times a second to maintain energy. However, it is an amazing option for eles, but it's a shame you all have your nuking hats on still.

If you WANT to see big damage, run a 100b warrior with mark of pain. Alternatively, a mesmer deals more damage AoE now.

It's not "in HM they are for support", it's "all that's left for them in HM is support".

Anet won't cry if they try to 'destroy their model of professions' because no one wants that. What people want for the elementalist is their model of profession BACK, not destroyed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guild Wars Manuscripts

Elementalists summon the powers of earth, air, fire, and water and command them at will. They can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession. Earth Magic summons quakes and eruptions, encases enemies in stone, or protects allies. Air Magic harnesses the power of tempests to strike foes down with lightning or enable allies to run like the wind. Fire Magic manifests flames, fireballs, molten lava, and even meteors to burn enemies to a crisp. Water Magic conjures mist and ice to slow enemy movement and attacks, blur vision, protect allies against magic, and inflict cold damage on enemies. Elementalists have access to Energy regenerating skills, and when chosen as a primary character, they can increase their maximum Energy over time. The wise Elementalist avoids becoming surrounded, but keeps a local area-of-effect spell on hand just in case.

They are supposed to be able to deal more damage in a single strike than any other profession. Period.
With my assassin I can deal over 120 in a single strike. With my mesmer well over 180.

With my elementalist I'm lucky If I deal more than 60.

Of course eles have a big deal of support, but if you see their sheer number of direct-damage spells, saying that they are 'just for support' is a mistake, in any mode and format. If they are not good at dealing damage in any format, that's something to be fixed, not a reason to use something else.

And as for the E/Mo bonders, they are one of the reasons why I'd rather allow only 3 skills from the secondary profession in the skill bar.
Elementalists directly healing and protecting others? Madness!

Some healing in water magic, like +1 regen in a ward against harm, or healing 5..22 to nearby allies when you are struck under the effects of Swirling Aura, or even healing adjacent allies for 50..150% of the cost of the spell you cast under the effect of Water Attunement would be fine by me.

But forfeiting your own profession to follow around some dummies that can't survive on their own?
That's not an elementalist. That's a shame.

HigherMinion · Feb 20, 2011, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Elementalists have a large pool of energy to do with as they please.

No one bats an eyelid when a necro abused Soul Reaping as a monk, or any other bar. What you can do is based on your energy management; not profession.

Also... DPS=/=single strike.

Elementalists have AoE damage, which is direct. Mark of Pain is not direct AoE damage, it must be triggered. RoJ is just better than Savannah Heat due to Burning and Chaos Storm is weak.

There is alot of cry over eles, and re-reading the guide doesn't help to justify their lame damage.

Kunder · Feb 20, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Intensity seems to be bugged. If I use Intensity and then cast Flare at the "suit of 100 armor" on the Battle Isle it deals damage to the two armors next to it.

But if I do the same with Dragon Stomp only the 100 armor suit is hit with the bonus damage.

I presume this is because as with all single-use effects that occur during an instantaneous multiple-trigger, the effect may not always be triggered at the targeted enemy but instead at one of the others that was hit 'first' by game logic.

Kashrlyyk · Feb 20, 2011, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I presume this is because as with all single-use effects that occur during an instantaneous multiple-trigger, the effect may not always be triggered at the targeted enemy but instead at one of the others that was hit 'first' by game logic.

You mean with AoE spells the possible targets are put in a list from left to right and the first entry is hit first? Oh crap.

Kunder · Feb 20, 2011, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

You mean with AoE spells the possible targets are put in a list from left to right and the first entry is hit first? Oh crap.

I have no idea what order it is. I highly doubt its left to right, if anything its probably NW-to-SE or something along the lines, not dependent on your view.

Mashiyu · Feb 20, 2011, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I presume this is because as with all single-use effects that occur during an instantaneous multiple-trigger, the effect may not always be triggered at the targeted enemy but instead at one of the others that was hit 'first' by game logic. (...)
I have no idea what order it is. I highly doubt its left to right, if anything its probably NW-to-SE or something along the lines, not dependent on your view.

Sounds plausible. Intensity doesn't need a target, since it works with target-less spells like DwG and AR. Didn't someone say that Intensity triggers on the PBAoE effect of Phoenix rather than on the projectile-AoE?

btw: Isn't in Minecraft something like the south-east rule?

Xiaquin · Feb 20, 2011, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Apart from all the water snares and Maelstrom rupts and Rust... You have Wards in Earth line; Eruption, blind spam; Churning Earth, etc.

Tryptophan Signet, Technobabble, Sneak Attack, Ymlad, SY, TntF, GDW; the list goes on and they're all easier to use/abuse.

Quote:

Anet will cry if they have to destroy their model of professions because too many nukers cry about not being able to nuke for 1337 damage. I know loads of people ingame who still use SF because they're bad at change/abusing mechanics.

Anet changed their own model by neglecting the most basic function of an RPG: a big damage caster that has to respect armor while others do not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

RoJ is just better than Savannah Heat due to Burning

Are you sure it's not the (higher) holy damage. lower recharge and the fact that SH has to bake on an enemy before it starts to do big damage? Spells like RoJ, MoP, Spiteful Spirit aren't just more powerful, they're more efficient.

HigherMinion · Feb 20, 2011, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Tryptophan Signet, Technobabble, Sneak Attack, Ymlad, SY, TntF, GDW; the list goes on and they're all easier to use/abuse.

PvE skills. can't run on heroes, etc. Doesn't work with my PvP comparison. I already thought it them, but Trypt is only Adjacent, Technobabble also Adjacent, Sneak Attack does no +damage and is Single Target only. Ymlad is meh without AP, SY is OP, TNtF is unnecessary and cannot compare to any elementalist skill. GDW is a Weapon spell. It takes nothing but Gust away from elementalists.

Quote:

Anet changed their own model by neglecting the most basic function of an RPG: a big damage caster that has to respect armor while others do not.

This is a PvP game, based on team play and synergy within the party and countering. Anet's model was for physical damage to be prevalent in possible DPS.

Quote:

Are you sure it's not the (higher) holy damage. lower recharge and the fact that SH has to bake on an enemy before it starts to do big damage? Spells like RoJ, MoP, Spiteful Spirit aren't just more powerful, they're more efficient.

No. Mark of Pain is more efficient. Spiteful Spirit is in the same bag as Shitter Flames, it's just in a different package.

Kunder · Feb 20, 2011, 10:57 PM // 22:57

The reason RoJ is better than SH is because its armor ignoring damage. Holy is just cake ontop of that vs undead . SH will do about 100-150 damage max on a HM mob (maybe 200 vs some casters with lower armor). RoJ hits about 330 with the burning. Ohh, and RoJ is in smiting which has spells that are actually useful (gogo SoH +26 damage per hit) while fire magic only has shitty spells that are at best 1/2 as strong as SH and require your bar to be half dedicated to energy management in the first place.

Xiaquin · Feb 20, 2011, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

PvE skills.

Maelstrom is 25/2/30, adjacent, restricted to initial location and causes exhaustion. Most Water snares are adjacent. Blind is blind. Ymlad outclasses several water snares and synergizes with other skills that need a condition present. Tntf/SY was being compared to defensive wards; those are also restrictive (like Maelstrom) and offer weaker protection by comparison.

Quote:

This is a PvP game, based on team play and synergy within the party and countering. Anet's model was for physical damage to be prevalent in possible DPS.

What about Painful Bond (and spiritway in general)? Well, I guess if this is a PvP game, you can ignore that, or the entire topic of PvE and PvE-only skills with this latest update.

Cuilan · Feb 21, 2011, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The reason RoJ is better than SH is because its armor ignoring damage.

Your reason for Ray of Judgement being better is that it's armor ignoring, but then you mention how it deals more damage. The reason is that it deals more damage then.

Kunder · Feb 21, 2011, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Your reason for Ray of Judgement being better is that it's armor ignoring, but then you mention how it deals more damage. The reason is that it deals more damage then.

Its not a higher damage spell, its simply armor ignoring which makes it better against high armor targets. There is a fine distinction there. SH is just fine against lvl 20 enemies.

Cuilan · Feb 21, 2011, 02:13 AM // 02:13

So what happens when a non-ignoring skill does more damage (overall)?

LifeInfusion · Feb 21, 2011, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

So what happens when a non-ignoring skill does more damage (overall)?

It means you let the eles ER...

UnChosen · Mar 06, 2011, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Now that 7 Heroes are out...I took the opportunity to try out every combinations of Eles build I could think of. NONE of them compared to the build composed of other classes. Just looking around the forum I haven't seen one person making a hero build that has a focus on elementalist. The few that even has an ele hero in their build all have a common build...ER Prot.

Eles skills should be changed so that they have synergy with other eles...Similar to soul reaping stacking, paragon shout stacking, spirits stacking, etc.

AndrewSX · Mar 06, 2011, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Well...there are like 5 skills in ele lines that have sinergies with others....(chilling wind, steam, elemental flame, earthen burden- or whatever) and the only other kind of sinergy i can think about is like Derv with avatar of balth+SF, enfeeble blood+stonig or such..still very weak. Expecially considering that as always they are all devoted to increase damage(or add little utility) and not buff/help team...

The reason because you can see only ER as HM eles is that it is:
1-the best sinergy so far. ER+AoR+(optional)Ele lord+ 2/3 or more ench = lolol infinite ene to spam prots.
2-it's the only thing at least useful a ele can do in HM. Yesterday i was doing Boogrot HM, and the MAX damage i got was 35. By Rogdort Invocation at 14 Fire(listed aroud 100 damage). 50 if standing in a EbsoH(eh, no more BuH also...). Even AP wasn't a option then...rolling a ER was the only way to be useful.
3-teorically, the best sinergy having more eles is the stack of damage (AoE expecially). Pity it is ridicolous....ridicolous damage x 3 eles = 3 wasted team slot. Roll 2 roj (aoe dmg and lot of utility) and a ER instead...

agrios · Mar 08, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

What say you about that?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=27

Kaleban · Mar 19, 2011, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Fine then lol.

Reduce HM monster armor along one or two elemental lines(Destroyers weak to Water/Air, Plants weak to Fire/Air) so that Ele damage in the vulnerable lines is MORE than melee damage.

Add a "spell critical" effect based on the amount of points in the attribute line (i.e. 12 Air gives 12% chance) that adds some effect to the damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Additionally, what really could add some spice is if every elemental spell should have a "luck effect" associated. For example: all fire spells could have some probability (to say, 1% to every 2 points in the associated attribute) of inflicting burning. In the same way, water could slow, all earth could blind or weaken, and all air could crack armor or daze.

Thats a good start, but I would expand upon it a bit. Much like the skill Air of Superiority, any time a Elemental spell is cast, the game would roll against the Spell Critical chance (12% at 12 for example) and then roll against a few random effects from each elemental sub-table, picking 1:

Fire - Burning, Crippled, Deep Wound
Earth - Weakness, Dazed, Cracked Armor
Air - Bleeding, Blind, Cracked Armor
Water - Poison, Weakness, Deep Wound

Then certain Ele skills could be modified, much like Critical Eye or WoTA for Sins to affect Ele spell critical chance above and beyond the inherent attribute chance.

jazilla · Mar 19, 2011, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Don't the class descriptions for Elementalists in GW1 and Gw2 say they do massive amounts of damage? All Anet needs to do is fix the descriptions for when you are making a character to say: "Elementalists use the forces of Air, Fire, Water, and Earth to do moderate damage to enemies. They cast Wards to protect, snares to slow, and glyphs to modify their mediocre skill set. This class is great for new players without Hard Mode yet, but isn't a class you will want to play long term because other classes outshine it with a plethora of armor ignoring skills that have faster recharges and casting times."

That way, they don't have to change them back to being the main damage dealers and anytime someone says they need a buff, ArenaNet can just tell us that they do what their class description says to a tee.